Comparative Religion

Comparative Religion – Part 5 ‘Ancestral Sin’ #Best Eye-opening

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Ancestral Sin, the Teachings of Jesus Or the Church?
fifth night
‘Sin of inheritance’

Comparative Religion – Using google translate for translation from Indonesia to English, and, we Ready for edit our content if we there is miss translation. but for the verses, we use New International Version. don’t worry.


Comparative Religion

AW : I would like to receive an explanation from the kyai, about the belief in inheritance sin caused by Adam and Eve’s sin.
BM : Alright, I will give you the answer, but before I ask the question: Is it true according to Christian belief that the children of Adam and Eve from birth have brought sin?.

AW : That’s right, because Adam and Eve sinned, the grandson received an inheritance from both of them.
BM : Why did Adam and Eve’s sins bequeathed to his grandchildren, every human being should have borne his sins from his own actions, not shouldering the sins of others.

AW : But according to Christian teachings, every human being from the time of birth has assumed sin, or received the inheritance of sin from the sin of Adam and Eve.

Therefore, the coming of Jesus was to atone for the sins of men from the inheritance of Adam and Eve.
BM : If your statement is true of Christianity, please check the book of the Prophet Ezekiel chapter 18 verse 20.

AW : The chapters and verses state:

Ezekiel 18:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

BM : Clearly the Bible itself states that each human being will bear both good and bad deeds, should not be charged or bequeathed to others.

Based on that verse, the sins of Adam and Eve must be borne by both of them.

But why did Adam and Eve’s sins have to be passed on to their children and grandchildren, so that their children and grandchildren participated in bearing their sins; whereas the Gospels themselves explicitly state that every good or bad deed done by one person cannot be imposed on another person.

Alright, I’ll continue my question to you; from what age you were baptized.

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AW : My parents said, since the age of three months they were brought to church and there were baptized, because every human being from birth has brought the sin of Adam and Eve called the Sin of Inheritance, so from the time the baby has brought sin; therefore I was baptized when I was a child.

BM : Are such actions based on the Bible
AW : I believe that way.

As I explained that the newborn baby is not pure, that is already carrying the sin of Adam and Eve.

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BM : If so, the baby who has not been baptized if he dies (of course) will certainly not go to heaven, because his death will bring the sins of Adam and Eve.

AW : Yes, it should be.
BM : Please check Matthew chapter 19 verse 14.

AW : In this chapter and verse it states:

Matthew 19:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

BM : Now, … notice in that verse it is clear that Jesus himself said that he acknowledged his holiness as a child.

While they have not yet acknowledged the crucifixion of Jesus and have not been baptized yet, but have a kingdom of heaven.

So based on Jesus’ own admission that the children did not carry the inheritance from Adam and Eve, therefore Jesus said: They are holy from sin and naturally enter heaven.

I want to ask again, when you were three months old, did you bring sin or not.
AW : Based on what Jesus said you said, of course not.

BM : So it’s still pure from sin even without being baptized.
AW : That’s right.

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BM : Then, what is the use of you being baptized at the age of three months?
AW : When I was three months old, of course I didn’t know anything.

BM : I ask now, not asking you when you were three months old.

So are you now aware of the absence of inheritance?
AW : As you explained earlier, based on Jesus’ own confession, of course I realize it.

Because, Jesus himself said that children are holy at birth.

BM : Now, how about now, is there still your view of inheritance sin?
AW : Of course you have to realize based on Jesus’ own words that new born children are holy and don’t carry any sin.

BM : What kind of sin does it bring?
AW : Yes, it does not carry the inheritance of sin from Adam and Eve.

BM : Then you have admitted that there is no inheritance sin?
AW : Yes, that is what I must confess based on the Bible itself.

BM : Thank God you have acknowledged that there is no inheritance sin, if inheritance is hereditary, then a newborn child who doesn’t know anything cannot separate good from bad, if the baby dies he brings sin and goes to hell, and where is God’s justice then?
AW : Yes, I can accept your statement.

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BM : Well, think about it with full awareness.

If there is a parent of several children, and the parent becomes a cheat, a thief, a traitor, acts of abuse, cruelty, and various kinds of sins he is working on, then he is sentenced to prison, whether his children are also required to bear the sins of the parent, then the children must be punished also go to prison for reasons of inheritance sin.

Whether such a court will be said to uphold justice.
AW : Thank you, I have realized, that sin cannot be passed on or passed on to others.

BM : Thank God, then.
AW : However, if sin cannot be inherited, merit must also not be inherited.

How according to the teachings of Islam in that regard.

BM : You can’t, you can’t; both merit and sin are passed on to others.
AW : The “no” answer is according to your own opinion or according to Islamic teachings.

BM : According to Islamic teachings, a person’s reward cannot be passed on or passed on to another person, nor can one’s sin be passed on to another person.

Each person bears his own merits and sins for his own actions.
AW : However, I once read an Islamic religion book which explains that the Prophet Muhammad once sacrificed a goat for his people as well as for his family.

This means that the Prophet inherited or passed on the reward to others, namely to his people and family.

That is not the sin of inheritance, but clearly the reward of inheritance.

So in the teachings of Islam there is also the reward of inheritance, so I don’t think you need to take care of the sins of inheritance in Christianity, if in Islamic teachings there are teachings of inheritance reward or operative reward teachings.

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BM : If the book of Islam that you read wants to be the subject of the merit of inheritance, Muslims should be able to pray and fast, then bequeathed the rewards for all Muslims who are still alive and dead, but no Muslims do that, even if there is , maybe because they do not know, that such actions are contrary to the holy book of the Qur’an.

So it is not the scriptures that are wrong, but the adherents themselves, and different from the Bible which contains many disputes between one verse with another.

In the Holy Qur’an, there are no teachings of inheritance reward or inheritance sin.

However, in the Bible (Christian) between one verse with another verse is distorted.
AW : I have read the Indonesian translation of the Qur’an, if I am not mistaken in the Ath Thurr verse verse 21 there is a mention that means that the children of believers will be included in heaven because of their father’s mother.

So because of the practice of his father and mother the children went to heaven. If that is not the reward of inheritance, then what is its name.
BM : The verse of the Qur’an that you are referring to will be read as follows: Which means:

And those who believed and whose descendants followed them in faith – We will join with them their descendants, and We will not deprive them of anything of their deeds. Every person, for what he earned, is retained.

(Surat At Tur verse 21).

In this verse clearly states that there is no inheritance reward, even dependents regarding inheritance reward are not available.

Those who enter heaven with their fathers are children who have not yet reached the age of baligh (adult), because those who are already of baligh (adult) will certainly be responsible for themselves.

Therefore in the verse there is a connection.

Which means: “Everyone is responsible (bound) by his own deed (each).”

So each person bears the sins and rewards for their actions not the inheritance of others.
AW : Is there anything more explicit in the Qur’an that the sins and rewards cannot be passed on or given to others.

BM : There are, quite a lot.
AW : I ‘m sorry, we want to know in what letter, and in what verse, we will match at home, because we have a translation of the Indonesian Qur’an.

Maybe the brothers who are here also need it too.
AUDIENCE: Need to be explained, because it’s important to be explained.

Comparative Religion

BM : Should we not check together here, if you agree with me telling me to get the Qur’an, then I show the letter and verse once. How, is it right now.
AW : If you memorized it better to mention the verses now, we will note: then we will match them at home with our Qur’an.

But if you don’t memorize it, we ask tomorrow night to save time.
BM : God willing, I memorized the verses.

AW : Fine, please mention, we will note.
BM : I will mention the names of the letters and verse numbers, then I will give information and you write down the name of the letter and the verse number that you mention, then match it again at home.
AW : well, we agree.

BM : 1. Surat Al Baqarah, verse 286:

Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity.

It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned.

“Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred.

Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us.

Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear.

And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us.

You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people.”

That is, good and bad actions, must be borne by the person doing it, must not be charged to others.
2. Surah Al Baqarah, verse 123:

And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, and no compensation will be accepted from it, nor will any intercession benefit it, nor will they be aided.

That is, one day on the Day of Resurrection, someone does not have the power to atone for the sins of others, and the reward is not allowed on people other.

Each must bear his own good or bad deeds.
3. Surah Al Ankabut, verse 6:

And whoever strives only strives for [the benefit of] himself. Indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

4. surah Yaasiin, verse 54:

So today no soul will be wronged at all, and you will not be recompensed except for what you used to do.

5. Surat Al Isra ‘, verse 15:

Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.

6. Surah An Najm, verses 38 and 39:

That no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another
And that there is not for man except that [good] for which he strives

7. surah Luqman, verse 33:

O mankind, fear your Lord and fear a Day when no father will avail his son, nor will a son avail his father at all. Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about Allah by the Deceiver.

The verses I mentioned above clearly show that a person has no power to atone for his sins or take away the merits of others.

So in Islam, there is no man in power to atone for sin, or an official to atone for sin, good or evil deeds must be borne by the person doing it.

I think the verses I have mentioned are enough, but if you still need, I will mention the other verses.
AW : That’s enough, and we understand, but we have read a book that mentions a Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad, narrated by Bukhari and Muslim who explained that:

“The corpse was tortured because it was cried by his family.”

Based on the Hadith it means that torture for the deceased, caused by the actions of others, not from his own actions.

The corpse was tortured because of the “deeds” weeping of others.

We have asked a number of people who we view understand about Islam, and one of the teachers of Islamic religion who knows the structure of the Hadith gives an answer that the hadith is true (valid), because the narrators are Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim.

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BM : The hadith of the Prophet that you brought was the arrangement:

“It has been said Umar and Ibn Umar: Said the Prophet Muhammad. actually the deceased was tortured because his family cried (narrated by Bukhari and Muslim) (google translation).

“But the essence of the Hadith is invalid, because it contradicts the verses of the Qur’an.

Although because you are Christians, you might not know about Sahih and False Hadiths, so that those who attend this meeting can also participate, I feel the need to explain that according to the books of Usul Fiqh and Musthalahul Hadith, which called the Hadith of the Prophet, not only must the history be valid but the composition must be fixed and the meaning of the hadith MUST not be contrary to the Qur’an.

In the history of Bukhari and Muslim it is clearly explained as such.

The purpose of the Hadith, when the hadith which explains that the deceased was tortured because of crying by his family, was heard by Siti Aisyah (Prophet’s wife), then Siti Aisyah rejected the truth of the Hadith.

Ayesha said: “Sufficient for you Verses of the Qur’an; And not having authority over someone else’s sins. (google translation)
AW : Well, then Kyai, now we have understood that based on the Biblical Book itself and the Qur’an the essence of inheritance sin and inheritance reward does not exist.

Namely every human being bears his own sin, and the reward according to their respective actions. This is fair.

BM : Yes, it should be; as mentioned in the Bible and the Qur’an we have read earlier.

But to make it clearer and more convincing to you, please check in the Gospels: “The letter sent by the Apostle Paul to the Romans (Romans) Article 2 verses 5 and 6.
AW : Alright, this letter and verse say the following:

Romans 2:5-8 New International Version (NIV)
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

BM : In this verse the Bible explains the inheritance sin?
AW : No, on the contrary every person will be rewarded according to their own deeds.

BM : Review Matthew chapter 16 verse 27 again.
AW : This verse explains / states:

Matthew 16:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

BM : Does in this verse the Bible explain the sin of inheritance?
AW : Nothing, according to this verse sin and good deeds will be borne by themselves, may not be imposed or bequeathed to others.

BM : So in the Gospels themselves, there is no inheritance sin.
AW : Yes, where did it come from as the inheritance’s sin?

BM : Do you still need further explanation?
AW : It’s very clear.

Comparative Religion

BM : Then let’s continue. In your verse you read it as “Son of man … Father.” Please read it again.
AW : Well, the beginning of the verse says: “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory …”

BM : What do you think is meant by “the Son of Man and his Father.”
AW : The son of man must be Jesus, while the Father is God.

BM : Check again: “Second letter to Christianity” article 5, verse 10.
AW : Well this verse says:

2 Corinthians 5:10 New International Version (NIV)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

BM : The Gospel verse itself states that everyone must be responsible for their actions, good or bad, should not be passed on or passed on to others.
AW : Based on Bible verses that you show that a person’s good or bad deeds cannot be passed on to others. Therefore, my trust in the inheritance sins began to fade.

BM : Then, then how about Adam and Eve’s sin, can it be passed on to others, he stressed to his children and grandchildren.
AW : Based on the Bible verse above certainly not.

So the sins committed by Adam and Eve, should be borne by the two of them, cannot be passed on to their children and grandchildren.

BM : In the history of Christianity we know what is called: “biechten,” are those who sin, and “de biechtafleggen,” are those who ask forgiveness for their mistakes, and “Biecht-vader,” are those who are authorized to give gosh. Everyone feels sorry for his mistakes can receive forgiveness by buying a letter stating that the sinner has been given forgiveness for his sin.

Forgiveness is called “Aflaat-brieven” or Indul gences, which means the mercy of God.
AW : Yes, I am aware of that, your testimony is satisfying to me.

BM : Not only that, but the Aflaat-brieven was in the past propaganda (gepredicht) in Germany by a rabbi (nonnik) named “Tetzel” in 1517 by order of Pope Leo, who became Pope in 1513-1521.

Some of the proceeds from the sale of Aflaat-brieven were used for the construction of the church building “Saint Pieter Kerk” in Rome.

It is too long to describe the history of church government in Europe in the early Middle Ages.
AW : Thank you, let’s just continue with the other questions, now it’s late at night, next time we’ll come again.

Read also

Ancestral Sin – #1

Comparative Religion – Part 4 #’Jesus the Redeemer?’

Comparative Religion – Part 6 ‘Error in the Quran?’

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